[Wrestling] Discussão Geral

[htc]

A WWE lixou o Flair? A serio? Ele recebeu a despedida que recebeu, foi o 1º a entrar no HoF enquanto ainda lutava, e lixaram-no? :lol:

Sim, forçaram-no a retirar-se.

 

Eu sei que o Flair já nem devia lutar há dez anos. Mas retirava-se quando bem entendesse, a WWE queria vender uma Wrestlemania à custa disso, e lá o fez.

[What]

Eu estou a falar dos Hardys, porque adoro o estilo do Jeff Hardy a lutar, e gostei também do que aconteceu na feud xD

Eu comecei a ver TNA na Eurosport exclusivamente para tentar apanhar combates do Jeff Hardy (como passavam coisas com meses de atraso), por isso dá para ver que sempre gostei dele, mas essa feud foi tããããão má. :mrgreen:

[Coiso]

Mas o Flair já era maior e vacinado. Bastava ele dizer ao Vince que não queria retirar-se naquela altura e ele tinha-se de conformar. Se eles fizeram aquilo, foi porque ele concordou. Como tal, foi um pouco "sujo" ter continuado a lutar, se bem que esporadicamente.

[Kanye]

Eu comecei a ver TNA na Eurosport exclusivamente para tentar apanhar combates do Jeff Hardy (como passavam coisas com meses de atraso), por isso dá para ver que sempre gostei dele, mas essa feud foi tããããão má. :mrgreen:

Olha eu tenho Meo, então quando o Jeff Hardy começou a aparecer na TNA comprei logo a Sport Tv 3 para ver os combates da TNA. Mas agora deixou de dar, mesmo assim ainda tento ver alguma coisa no Youtube ou assim, mas gosto mesmo dele, acho que tem um carisma, mesmo não sendo dos melhores no mic, acho que eletrifica com a sua maneira de lutar, sou um grande fã mesmo. Em relação á feud não a achei assim tão má, mas há sempre os gostos :mrgreen:

Gostei também da que ele teve com o Triple H no Smackdown pelo titulo da WWE, e que acabou com ele a vencer o titulo finalmente no Armageddon, nunca mais me esquece esse Triple Threat :mrgreen:

[Mister Master]

Attitude Era vs. PG Era

 

So it’s only going to be one post instead of a series. Sorry if that disappoints anyone.

 

I read a lot of posts and opinions of people that talk about how the Attitude Era was so great and how awful the PG Era is so bad and how things need to be more like what they were back in the late 90s. This is one of the dumbest things I’ve ever heard because people aren’t thinking when they say stuff like this. Either that or the more likely reality: they don’t know what they’re talking about.

 

Wrestling today is pretty awesome and in a lot of ways it’s better than what we have back in the 90s. Now before I get into this, let me make something clear: I’m not saying this era is better nor am I saying it’s worse. I’m saying that there are a lot of people that blindly say we need to get back to the Attitude Era way of thinking and style of airing TV and I’m going to explain why they have no idea what they’re talking about.

 

Note that this is just about WWE, not TNA and/or WCW. Also I won’t be going past the end of the year 2001 with this so don’t bother mentioning stuff from January 1, 2002 on because it’s not what I’m talking about. For a starting point, let’s say January 1, 1998. I know the Attitude Era was longer than that but it’s an easy date to work with.

 

First and foremost, people seem to think that the Attitude Era was all Austin and Vince tormenting each other and Rock cracking people up and Foley getting beaten up and then cracking a witty line. See, here’s the thing: that was about ¼ of the show. The fact of the matter is that a lot of the Attitude Era’s TV time SUCKED. I’ve been watching some 98 Raws and you get a lot of stuff like the DOA vs. the old Road Warriors, a multiple months long Jeff Jarrett vs. Steve Blackman feud, the NWA faction sucking the life out of the place, and about 15 minutes of Austin vs. McMahon per show.

 

People remember the cool moments of the late 90s but they forget about a lot of the really awful stuff and believe me, it got bad. You had stuff like Mark Henry getting oral sex from a transvestite, May Young giving birth to a hand, a story about Stephanie McMahon’s teddy bear, William Regal as the Brawny Man, the J.O.B. Squad, a trio of vampires, human sacrifices, people almost being embalmed, live burials, Chyna turning three times at one show, Jeff Jarrett getting hit in the back by a frozen fish, a championship changing hands at a Days Inn, a wrestler whose gimmick was he could vomit on command, and Mae Young being topless on PPV.

 

In short, the Attitude Era had some really stupid ideas. Some of those might not have been in the time period I mentioned, but you get the idea. People want to complain about Cena being impossible to beat and call him Superman or something like that, but is John Cena saluting people more childish than Austin holding his boss at gunpoint and having a flag come out of it that says Bang 3:16? That’s something I’ve seen in Bugs Bunny cartoons.

 

People want to argue about how silly and childish things are today. Yeah, there are some pretty stupid ideas like Hornswoggle and Sheamus being related to a Muppet, but at the same time we have Punk and his Pipe Bombs, Cena standing tall against a guy that talks about Fruity Pebbles and talks in funny voices (there’s a long chat in that feud that I’ll save for later), anti-bullying stories which can inspire kids (corny but true), and comedy bits that aren’t that bad when you remember your audience.

 

That brings me to one of the bigger points: the show isn’t for us anymore. Back in the 80s, everything was based around kids. Hogan’s feuds were never more than “I can beat this giant because the Hulkamaniacs are behind me!” You had a guy with a snake who beat up everyone else with the DDT. You had Savage being incredibly colorful and over the top. You had simple villains like Bobby Heenan and Jimmy Hart. It was a simple time for simple minds. Know what else it was? The biggest era ever for wrestling.

 

Then the 90s happened and those fans grew up. They got tired of seeing guys like Hogan and hearing the “you all be good” stuff. The fans rebelled and we got stuff like ECW and Steve Austin and DX and The Rock and all that jazz. The problem became that everything had to top what we had before, which is how in 1999 we had the Ministry of Darkness and crucifixions and Mideon drinking blood and vampires and all that stuff. It stopped being about wrestling and was all about drama.

 

Finally Austin got too hurt to wrestle and things got even better in the year 2000. What was different about 2000 rather than 98 and 99 you ask? The focus was on the ring. You had Angle and Benoit and Jericho and Guerrero coming in and Rock vs. HHH going 25 minutes every PPV and Undertaker being a biker instead of a demon.

 

Nick Bockwinkel used to say “That’s what it says on the marquee: Wrestling.” It sounds corny and stupid, but at the end of the day he’s right: if you put good wrestling out there, people will watch, because that’s what they’re here to see. I don’t watch Raw to see pure drama or comedy. If I wanted to see that, I’d watch a drama or a comedy. Look at the biggest angle of the year in Punk vs. Cena. In every promo Punk had, it ended with him saying that he was the best in the world and that he would prove it by beating John Cena in the middle of the ring. It wasn’t about power or some obscure thing. It was about pinning John Cena to the mat for 3 seconds. It was about wrestling.

 

So then Rock and Austin leave and you have guys like Brock Lesnar and Kurt Angle to take their place. The pendulum has swung back to pure mat wrestling….and people don’t care as much. Starting around 2003-2004, things started to go downhill again, especially interest in the product. It appeared as if the pendulum would be swinging back towards the Attitude Era as things were getting insane again….and then something happened.

 

In June of 2007, Chris Benoit went over the edge and murdered his wife and son before committing suicide. Wrestling was on the front page of the paper as you had someone that was a big deal in WWE and was on the verge of winning a world title on the news for killing three people. This made the steroids trial in 1993 look like a walk in the park. Everything was changed and WWE had to change too. They had just come through an era where Angle and Benoit would drop each other on their heads ten times a match 4 nights a week. Benoit went crazy and Angle can’t go a year without a neck injury. Things had to change.

 

With WWE and the wrestling world being turned upside down, everything more or less had to be reset. Benoit is still less than five years ago and it’s not like you can hide things in the modern age where there are cameras everywhere. People complaining about the lack of chair shots to the head and blood don’t get the bigger picture: if something else like Benoit happened, the WWE would cease to exist. Sponsors would pull out, people would leave, fans would go away. Vince is protecting himself and his company by doing what he’s doing and there’s nothing wrong with that. If you can’t watch wrestling without someone taking an unprotected chair shot to the head, I feel very sorry for you.

 

So in the aftermath of that, Vince reset things back to the most basic things he could think of. Wrestling fans being wrestling fans, they didn’t want something that wasn’t geared exactly to them, so when the product wasn’t aimed at them anymore, they declared that it sucked. Wrestling is geared towards kids right now and you know what? It’s freaking good. We’re getting John Cena vs. the Rock and Christian getting the push the fans have demanded for years and Sheamus being all big and awesome and Orton having his best matches in years and Punk being the voice of the voiceless and Ryder’s internet show getting him on TV and a dozen other awesome things.

 

“But it’s not the Attitude Era!!!” Get over it. It isn’t your time anymore so stop thinking it’s going to be. Things in life aren’t always going to go your way and you need to accept that. You think your parents liked listening to Hogan telling you to take your vitamins or Warrior wanting to load up the spaceship with the rocket fuel or Hawk and Animal rambling about absolutely nothing that made sense to anyone that was human? It’s not about us anymore. It’s about the kids and catching their attention with bright colors and low level humor. And as much as you don’t want to admit it, it’s working. Mania broke 1,000,000 buys last year and the Trump record will fall with Cena vs. Rock. It’s their era now, not ours.

 

This next part I wrote earlier but I got on a roll with the previous section so it’s going to seem a little out of place for an ending.

 

Also you want to complain about title changes? From 1998-1999, no WWF World Title reign lasted longer than 90 days. Think about that. No one held the world title longer than 3 months for over two years. This would include three title reigns (one by Rock, Foley and Vince) that combined to last ten days. Midcard titles more your thing? In 1999-2000, the Intercontinental Title changed hands 23 times. In 24 months, there were 23 title reigns. Think about that for a minute. The tag titles weren’t as bad as they only changed 22 times in that span of time.

 

Title reigns didn’t mean anything back then. Austin won 6 world titles starting in 1998 and ending in 2001. Factoring in the year he was gone, Austin won all of his titles in about two and a half years, or about 2.4 world titles a year. Rock won his first in late 98 and his last in 2002. He’s a nine time champion over a four year span, or about 2.25 a year. By comparison, Cena has won 12 world titles in roughly 6 years (factoring out injury time) or approximately 2 a year. Orton is a 9 time champion, winning his first in 2004, which puts him at about 1.3 titles a year. But hey, Cena and Orton win them too often right? And remember Austin and Rock had one world title to vie for (save for the Alliance Era) so there were fewer titles to go around, making it harder to win them.

 

I think the big difference is that people stay around longer now. Austin arrived in WWF in 1995 and was gone by let’s say the middle of 2002, giving him about 6 and a half years in the company (5 and a half factoring in the year off). Rock debuted in late 96 and was gone by late 2002 for a total of 5 years also (roughly 5 when you consider the time off for movies). Cena has been around for over 9 years now and Orton about the same. Do you remember the end of Austin’s run in WWF? It was when he was feuding with Flair and Big Show when he was falling apart. Imagine Austin as a shell of his former self and being so far past his time that he meant nothing. Think people would get tired of him?

 

You look at guys like Orton and Cena and you have two guys that have had some of their best stuff recently. Cena fueled Punk’s push and Orton stole a lot of shows with his matches against Christian. Austin and Rock both left the company (spare me the arguments about them bailing out and abandoning the company. They’re bogus) after about 6 years when they were past their primes. Cena and Orton have hit (very) arguably their peaks recently. The difference is that instead of spending years in another company building themselves up, they started in OVW (for the most part) and came through the WWF system, allowing them to be there faster.

[SAS_Robben]

A Attitude Era é a m*rda mais overrated da história do wrestling

[Mister Master]

Found this on Scott Keith's blog and thought I would share it with you guys:

 

Hey Scott,

 

So on the WWE board at GameFaqs.com, there's a poster who worked as an assistant for the writing team from September to December last year and is giving away some neat insights about the day-to-day workings of the writing process and some tidbits on some of the stars and personalities. It seems legit; the detail of his work was pretty, uh, detailed, and he posted a pic of the office he worked out of and a couple of the one-sheets from the shows. Some of the information is obvious (Cena and Orton have backstage pull on their angles, etc.) but there have some some interesting things he's revealed (Sheamus was the planned Rumble winner since the previous summer and not a last-second swerve as a result of Chris Jericho, D-Bry being against pairing up with AJ). I've gleamed some of the better bits from the topic and thought I'd pass them along since a common cry on the Blog of Doom is "What are they thinking?" And I think it at least beats a fantasy booking e-mail.

 

I've included a lengthy list, so feel free to cherry-pick. If you're asking why I simply didn't include a link to said forum, it's because the WWE board is inaccessible to anyone who doesn't have enough "karma" built up on the site to keep the trolls out. If this makes for a blog entry, I'd be more than happy to do a follow-up e-mail later on as the topic continues.

 

--

 

His duties:

 

"Mainly note-taking and updating many documents that helped the writers do their jobs. There was a document that had the last 6 episodes of Raw and Smackdown broken down by segment. Another that listed the 'Last 5 Times' something was done (like the belt being used as a weapon, or a chair being used, or interference in a match). That stuff had to be updated every week so the writers could refer to it whenever needed.

 

There was a ton of word processing basically. Each week to write the shows we would write the numbers 1 to 11 on the board (the segments of the shows) and just discuss the stories and where to put things. Then I or another assistant would create a "one sheeter" out of those. Basically list each segment and a few bullet points of what they would consist of. The writers would then use this as a guideline to write the scripts.

 

The writing team is divided into a home team that stays in Stamford, and a road team that travels to all the shows. Unfortunately I was on the home team. My only backstage experience was at Survivor Series which was pretty dope."

 

--

 

On who he answered to:

 

"Probably Brian Gewirtz, who was my true boss. If the writers told me one thing and Brian said another, Brian's word goes. Always."

 

--

 

On scripting promos and on-the-fly changes:

 

"Cena has been known to throw the script out and do his own thing on occasion. I'm sure Punk does occasionally. Ziggler has gone off script a time or two and was reprimanded for it. It's hard to tell for me because the writing process is sort of an assembly line. We wrote the outline and first drafts of the script in Stamford after approval by Vince, then they'd go to the head writers and always through at least three more drafts. Then there'd be another meeting with Vince on location at the arena the morning of every show. More changes are made. Then there's last minute changes that are made with so little notice that they don't even have time to be put down on paper. Then of course someone may go out in front of the crowd and forget part of their lines, or choose to improvise for whatever reason. But the bulk of that happened outside of my view. So most times the Raw that aired monday was very different than the one that left the offices the week before, and I didn't always know where the changes occurred."

 

On backstage pull:

 

"About as much input as you would expect. Orton, Punk and especially Cena have a lot of say in their stories I think. After Survivor Series, Cena felt he shouldn't lose clean again (or preferably at all) until Wrestlemania, and so he didn't. When Jericho was in talks of coming back, it was under the conditions that he work with Punk and put him over at Wrestlemania (Jericho's demands, not WWE's). He also came up with the light bright jacket thing and paid for it himself (I heard $10g for the first one). Cody Rhodes said in a recent interview that he had his leather vest cape thing custom made and paid for it himself, so I guess to a certain degree the wrestlers are responsible for their own characters. But on the other hand, Daniel Bryan complained a lot about being put into a story with AJ because his last girlfriend storyline with Gail Kim was so bad, but he couldn't really do anything about it.

 

So I guess you could say it varies quite a bit."

 

--

 

On the tag and Divas divisions:

 

"The thing with Vince is he goes through these weird and seemingly random phases. For a while he'll be into the tag division, then he couldn't care less. He'll want to do Diva storylines, then he doesn't care if they make it on the show at all. He'll hire someone like Tamina and not do crap with them for years, then one day ask "Why aren't we doing anything with Tamina Snuka? She's a Snuka goddammit!" and Tamina will get a random push.

 

Right now I guess he's in the mood for some attention on the tag division."

 

--

 

On HHH and Stephanie:

 

"Triple H is super cool. I actually met him in the men's room. While he was washing his hands I nervously introduced myself and he took a second to stop, look me in the eye, say good to meet you and make sure he got my full name right. Also from my understanding he was the voice of reason that would reel in many of Vince's crazy ideas in the meetings.

 

Steph is very nice also, but does have a tendency to stare at you in a sort of psychotic-looking manner. But she's friendly and jokes around and tries to know everyone's name.

 

They're just normal people really."

 

--

 

On the anonymous GM:

 

"There were a few directions they were considering. The obvious one being Vince, but they also were heavily considering JBL. But Vince killed the story. In fact at one point when the head writers pushed him to at least tie up the loose end some how, Vince suggested to reveal that it was Laurinaitis all along in a "throwaway line backstage."

 

The whole thing was dropped though. When Vince stops caring about something, it's dead."

 

--

 

On FCW:

 

"Sure there was a booklet that had bios of the "top talent" of FCW. We would also get weekly FCW DVD's of the latest show which were available for whoever had time to watch them, but any decisions as far as new talent debuts or anything like that were done by Talent Development, which Triple H is in charge of together with Matt Martolaro, former FCW announcer.

 

But on occasion we would have a task like "We need a list of the top 5 choices for names for Donny Marlow." And we discussed as a group and put our favorites on the board. They had to be cleared by the legal team to make sure we could trademark them. Marlow and Hunico themselves liked Camacho best, so Camacho it became.

 

I remember seeing paperwork for Ryback 's debut plan. It included the design of his attire as well as storyboards for his vignettes, but I guess they decided not to do the vignettes.

 

That's the thing about the place, and about TV in general I guess, it's so so SO fluid. Things change constantly and at last minute and you have to learn to just go with it."

 

--

 

On Punk at Survivor Series:

 

"I can tell you a CM Punk story from Survivor Series. Punk was warming up because his match was coming up soon. He was jogging in place and such backstage psyching himself up. MSG is a relatively small arena backstage, so things were a bit cramped. About 20 feet away Miz and Truth were about to pre-tape their backstage interview with Matt Striker (who btw purposely opens his stance up so he's shorter than the people he interviews).

 

The PA asked everyone to quiet down so Miz and Truth could record there thing. It's at this moment that Punk starts doing box jumps. While everyone else is silent, he's jumping loudly on and off a storage crate. The PA comes over and says something like "I'm sorry Punk but we're trying to tape this thing. Could you please keep it down?"

 

Punk says nothing, continues jogging in place but turns over to Miz and Truth and flips them off.

 

I think he was just joking around, but he did seem like kind of a douche."

 

--

 

On Kane's re-masking and feuding with Cena instead of Henry:

 

"From what I can recall, though Kane was taken out by Mark Henry, Glenn Jacobs did not want to come back and feud with him for whatever reason. So they instead had him return on RAW and go after Cena, though I think it was already planned when he was written off with the broken ankle that he would come back with the mask.

 

However the design of the outfit, as well as the look and filming of the vignettes teasing his return were both done by other departments and had nothing to do with the writers. We were as anxious to see what he would look like when he returned as everyone else."

 

--

 

On the Natalya Neidhart "farting" gimmick:

 

"We used to make fun of Natalya a lot because from what we heard she had kind of an eccentric personality. It was in good fun though and not malicious, but at some point the "Nattie Neidfart" joke came up and we had a good laugh talking about stupid stuff like changing her move to the "shartshooter." Several weeks later when I was already fired and the story actually made it to TV my jaw dropped and I cracked up. You'd be surprised how much stuff is done just as a rib on people."

 

--

 

On Daniel Bryan:

 

"Everyone knew that DB would not hold the briefcase until Wrestlemania. I don't know why that became part of his story, but likely it was a promise he could break later to facilitate a heel turn. I heard that Bryan winning MitB was actually a last minute same-day decision. From what I could tell, nobody had much faith in Bryan as a draw while he was a face. Bryan almost had to turn heel, because he wasn't very good at giving face promos. When he first won the championship and started cutting promos still as a face, he would emphasize the wrong parts and say things in the wrong tone. It actually came out kind of obnoxious and heelish, which probably encouraged the decision to turn him. However when he became champion, Vince and the writing team wanted to do a very "sophisticated" and slow-burn gradual heel turn which obviously worked wonderfully. I think they had a lot of fun with that story. I remember something in the notes that came in once that said something like

 

* From now on, when Daniel Bryan wins any match he should celebrate like it's the biggest victory of his life

 

This is was when he was right in the middle of the gradual heel turn and that's where YES! was born."

 

--

 

On Nash/Punk/HHH:

 

"It was Nash not being medically cleared to compete by the time he was supposed to face Punk. The writers had to scramble and think of a reason to stall the story, and then it became Kevin Nash vs. Triple H. Again the story took on a life of its own and they had to go through with the feud, even though it was pretty clear Nash had nothing to offer. Instead of Big Daddy Cool, he was screaming all of his promos. His ring abilities were shoddier than ever. So it was decided Nash and Trips would have one blow off match and we'd be done with Kevin Nash on the show. Punk vs. Nash almost happened on RAW a few times, just to tie up the loose end, but I think they didn't want Nash competing a big match before his match with Triple H so it never happened."

 

--

 

On Brodus Clay's gimmick change:

 

"The whole writing team was under the impression that Brodus would come back as the monster heel depicted in the vignettes. It was Vince who saw things differently. When the vignettes were already airing and the writing team asked him when they should debut Brodus, Vince said something like "What's his character? We don't have anything for him. I don't understand who Brodus Clay is. Let's hold off on his debut until we have a better idea."

 

Backstage it was well known that Brodus has a lot of charisma, loves kids and is a great talker. Vince decided he wanted Brodus as a face, and for some reason, despite Brodus having no dancing ability, he wanted Brodus to dance.

 

They worked on the gimmick for weeks, mainly down in FCW (as dark segments I assume). All of it was completely out of the writers hands and was probably handled by Talent Development instead. The reason his debut was teased so much was because at first we thought he was ready, then Vince would decide he isn't ready yet. His ring work isn't up to par, or the choreography isn't good enough, or the outfit needs work still, or the whole production needs more time, or the timing is off. All kinds of stuff like that.

 

When Brodus finally debuted, the writers came into work the next day and the reaction was as mixed as it was [on the IWC]. Some thought it was cheesy and a disaster, some thought it was fun and entertaining, some thought it just needed time to get over.

 

In the end, it was a way more fun and original idea to make him the Funkasaurus than generic monster heel #622978 I think.

 

Although admittedly after a while we had Laurinaitis tease Brodus's debut just to get him heat. There was an idea that Brodus would debut as a monster, but then turn on Laurinaitis and break out the dancing character. Or that Laurinaitis would be under the impression that he was bringing in a monster, only to be dismayed when Brodus shows up dancing. There were a few possibilities, but they ultimately decided to drop Brodus and Johnny's connection all together."

 

--

 

On Zack Ryder's depush:

 

"I didn't feel that the writers had anything against Ryder really. I think Gewirtz feels that he's a natural underdog, and that's why people like him. The moment you give him too much exposure or success, he's no longer an underdog and becomes annoying so they try to stick to that.

 

Any personal feelings that stop someone from getting more success probably come from Vince himself. Absolutely no major plot points, no title wins or face/heel turns get on TV without Vince's approval."

 

--

 

On planning for the Royal Rumble:

 

"The winner is determined months in advance usually, but it's always subject to change. The way they usually book is that they set up the main events for PPVs all the way from now until next Wrestlemania. They then work backwards between PPVs to develop the storylines on RAW and SD. There's a document that charts the main events, but a lot of the stuff ends up changing. When I flipped through this document in September, Sheamus was already scheduled to win the Rumble, but he was also supposed to take on Mark Henry for the WHC at Wrestlemania. But things happen. Henry got injured and had to drop the title, Bryan cashed in and became a phenomenon, etc. Del Rio was supposed to take on Orton, but he got injured as well. Sin Cara and Mysterio, same deal. So most of the stuff they had planned did not actually come to fruition. And even before the Rumble there was lots of consideration about making the winner Jericho instead since they knew they wanted Jericho to take on Punk at Wrestlemania. I think ultimately it was decided that Sheamus needs a Rumble victory more than Jericho, and Jericho could get to Wrestlemania by other means.

 

As for the specifics, Michael Hayes does most of it with some of the agents. They plan the list of participants, then work on the order and some of the big spots. The reason it was 30 people and not 40 again this year was because the roster was so thin because of so many injuries. Hell even with 30 they had to resort to guys like Jey Uso and Michael Cole."

 

--

 

On Sheamus as the next Cena and a Cena heel turn:

 

"Sheamus is being built as the next John Cena. Which is a good thing, because it will free up Cena to do other things in the future, like turn heel. Kids love Sheamus. He moves merch. He's good at press appearances and talk shows and junk. He's the best possible candidate to replace Cena as the top babyface. As far as the man personally, I don't remember hearing anything interesting. He's just a loyal hardworking guy. Last I heard he wanted to add a cloverleaf as another finishing move.

 

From what I've heard, Cena would LOVE to turn heel. The Thuganomics character was a lot more like his real persona, and I know he feels limited by being a face. It's the company and Vince that doesn't want to take the leap until they have an established replacement for him, which is most likely Sheamus. It's not just the show itself, but they need someone that can do all the Make A Wish stuff, the PR appearances, the sponsorships, etc that Cena does. Cena works his ass off for the company, and nobody else even comes close right now. So there's a lot of things lost in turning him heel."

 

--

 

On the planning process from September onward:

 

"Tough question to answer. Like I said they had a very skeleton idea of the major feuds and matches all the way through to Wrestlemania. They always work backwards from the PPV card to book the Raws and Smackdowns in-between, so they always know what the end goal is. As far as specifics of matches and promos, that's usually a week by week basis, with the team planning one week ahead of real time. Some feuds that were story-heavy, like Cena vs. Kane, would sometimes have "grids" which is basically a chart with four columns representing the four weeks until the next PPV. Writers were encouraged to work in that grid style, keeping in mind how one week relates to the next, rather than winging it week by week."

 

--

 

On the sanitized TV-PG product:

 

"A lot of the restrictions nowadays are not so much about PG vs Non-PG but because the world has gotten more aware and more critical about health and sports as a whole. For example, whereas blood was rampant in the Attitude era, now if someone bleeds they practically stop the match and have a cut doctor with gloves work on them. This is not because of PG, but because of higher concerns over hepatitis and things like that that are tied to legal issues about workplace risks and red tape like that. Same goes for chair shots to the head. Has nothing to do with PG, but with society up in arms about concussions and life threatening head injuries in the NFL and anywhere else.

 

However PG was a roadblock on a few occasions. For example in the Cena vs. Kane story, we were told that lighting anyone on fire was not PG and was not a possibility, and even lighting any THING on fire was unlikely to be approved. When you're dealing with a Kane story that's kind of a kick in the balls."

 

--

 

On the writers as a group:

 

"The writers are a lot like [the IWC]. They want stories to be entertaining, deep, and make sense. But sometimes their plans are derailed by what Vince wants to do. Sometimes they're so busy working on the main storylines that the midcard guys like Primo and Epico fall through the cracks without having a storyline for weeks. They're doing their best. And I believe Vince has always been the way he is.

 

You gotta realize that Vince has lived and breathed this company for 30 years. It's all he thinks about, so he's a very unusual guy and very disconnected from the "real world." He has no time to watch TV. He has no idea whats going on in pop culture. He's never seen most major movies of the last 40 years that everyone has seen. Like I remember making a reference to The Shining, and Brian Gewirtz said "I can guarantee you that Vince has never seen The Shining." He has to have other people explain these things to him because all he knows is the WWE."

[Coiso]

Até tenho medo de perguntar, mas isso é interessante de ler? Gosto sempre de passar os olhos em coisas como essas, vindas de ex-funcionários da empresa.

[Mister Master]

É.

[El Colosso]

"I didn't feel that the writers had anything against Ryder really. I think Gewirtz feels that he's a natural underdog, and that's why people like him. The moment you give him too much exposure or success, he's no longer an underdog and becomes annoying so they try to stick to that.

 

Isto :prayer:

[Aimar10]

Interessante isso, MM.

 

 

Btw, parece que a tal "Revolution" de que o WWE.com falava era apenas o anúncio do WWE'13. :lol:

 

[Pavel]

Que pwn da WWE em todos :lol:

Btw, GOLDBERG NO JOGO

[Chicago]

Que pwn da WWE em todos :lol:

Btw, GOLDBERG NO JOGO

 

Onde viste isso?Se ele entrar no jogo já o compro.

[Pavel]

Parece o gajo a fazer um Spear ao Mankind.

[Chicago]

Parece o gajo a fazer um Spear ao Mankind.

 

É o Austin.

[Lifehouse]

Sheamus o novo John Cena?

O gajo tem um booking horrivel e bem lhe tentam enfiar a cena de super campeão e a reacção vai piorando.

[andriy pereplyotkin]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E0q7PPu_NIg

Esta entrance era tão badass :lol:

[Aimar10]

True, perep.

 

Sheamus o novo John Cena?

O gajo tem um booking horrivel e bem lhe tentam enfiar a cena de super campeão e a reacção vai piorando.

Lá está. Super campeão e a reacção do público a piorar... é o novo Cena. :mrgreen:

E aquela vitória em 18 segundos na WM sobre o Daniel Bryan fez com que o público começasse a reagir um pouco pior. Já ao Daniel Bryan, fez maravilhas. :lol:

Editado 24 Maio 2012 por Aimar10

[TP]

Eu ainda vou na velhinha época de 1993 onde o Yokozuna venceu o Bret Hart na WrestleMania, hei-de te apanhar... Tenho toda a colectânea de Monday Night RAW's no meu computador, infelizmente não consigo ver com a periodicidade que desejava e episódios do WWF Superstars são raros no youtube.

 

E eu percebo o porquê de gostares da Attitude Era que começa exactamente por volta desse ano a chegar ao topo com ratings de 5.0. na escala de Nielsen, e é verdade era um produto a chegar aos limites, mas temos de ver que o tempo passa. Por essa altura tinhas os classicos combates a aparecer, novos tipos de combates digo. TLC's, Hell in a Cells e o kayfabe do wrestling embora já quebrado ainda podia ser encontrado uma vez ou outra, coisa que actualmente já não fazem.

Também temos de dar créditos às personagens que lá estavam, mais especificamente a The Rock e Stone Cold Steve Austin que eram dois génios a viver no mesmo tempo, mas há bastantes parvoíces também a ser falado desse tempo. Tens o exemplo mais conhecido da Mae Young e do Mark Henry terem dado à luz uma mão --' verdade uma mão xD e aquela historia envolvendo o corte de pénis de alguém que não me recordo, mais o rapto, casamento e violação do HHH na Stephanie e o facto de todas as personagens terem o mesmo tipo de personagem "badass" que até o Undertaker adoptou mais tarde quando se transformou do Morto para o American Badass. De facto vendo em retrospectiva, as rivalidades eram pouco lógicas, geralmente tinham provocações do lutador X para o lutador Y, ou porque o lutador X traiu o Y, e era praticamente isso, mas era algo novo e interessante na altura, em 2001 como podes ver tudo começou a cair aos bocados até 2012. Fui procurar informações e em 1999 uma acção da WWE valia 17£ e actualmente valem 7£ por isso vou concordar que está a precisar de uma mudança sem sombra de duvidas.

 

A PGERA como nós a chamamos, é uma era que esta centralizada essencialmente na imagem dos McMahon, especialmente agora que a mulher do Vince quer ser senadora. Acredito que quando o Hunter realmente abraçar a posição e tiver mais liberdade que vai melhorar o produto com ajuda de pessoas como Shawn Michaels e se ainda for vivo Jim Ross e Paul Heyman com quem ele mantem uma relação agradavel e repara que disse HHH, não a Stephanie. Mas há que valorizar o ano que passou, em termos de espectáculo entregou como devia de ser, excelentes combates e excelentes historias como a do CM Punk vs. Cena, Christian vs. Randy Orton, The Rock vs. Cena etc...

 

De facto este tema é interessantíssimo para ser discutido num tópico só TP, quando possivel envia-me oteu mail por mensagem privada, pareces ser um tipo fixe para discutir wrestling :)

Parvoíces, há em todo o lado, em todas as eras, a toda a hora. Por isso, não considero o argumento das "parvoíces", como um bom argumento. E no entanto, essas "parvoíces", que existiam claro, eram sempre compensadas, com grandes rivalidades e bons combates.

 

Também havia muito drama. Mas eu também considero que o drama faz parte do wrestling. O wrestling, para mim, não é só o combate em si. É tudo. A história, a rivalidade, o público, a paixão, as personagens, "as parvoíces", e claro, os combates em si também. E o drama, também.

 

Podem achar muito estúpido existir uma stable de vampiros... O Undertaker a sacrificar pessoas. O Kane a mandar fireballs. Eu simplesmente acho isso muito porreiro.

 

Quanto ao mail, vou-te mandar por PM, mas eu raramente vou ao MSN agora. Mas mando na mesma ;)

 

 

Vou mandar uma só para o "barulho" mas a principal diferença da PG Era e da Attitude Era é o público. Tudo o resto se compensava se o público estivesse ao nível desses anos.

 

Claro que isto é um ciclo vicioso, o produto é fraco, o público reage menos, o público reagindo menos parece pior o produto. Daí que a grande diferença seja o público, o que não impede que de facto a qualidade do produto tenha descido a nível geral. As personagens contudo melhoraram.

Antes fosse só o público. Não há aquela "paixão", aquela "violência". Pelo amor de Deus, o wrestling é um desporto de combate, de contacto físico. Como é que é possível, num desporto desses, não haver aquela "violência", dura e crua? Não há cadeiradas... Sangue... etc, etc. não gosto, sei lá. Não estou conformado com estas "alterações".

 

Mas até concordo um pouco com isso do público. Até me arrepio dos pops que o 'Taker, Austin e Rock recebiam. E já para não falar, que jobbers, como Val Venis, Godfather, sacavam mais pops que quase o inteiro roster da WWE , hoje em dia.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E0q7PPu_NIg

Esta entrance era tão badass :lol:

referi isso no meu post. não faz sentido nenhum existirem "vampiros" no wrestling. mas eu acho que isso é awesome e badass, como tu referiste. wrestling para mim também é essa "invenção".

 

Outra cena, que me esqueci. Os comentadores de hoje em dia. QUE NOJO! O único que se aproveita é o Booker T (e é mais por ser meio "labrego" a falar) :mrgreen: O King, está um morto vivo autêntico. Quem é que não se lembra dos comentários do King na AE? Ele era Heel e fazia um papelão. Agora, quase não diz nada, e do pouco que diz, não se aproveita muita coisa. É sempre a mesma m*rda. Já para não falar que ele e JR , melhor dupla de sempre.

O Cole, sinceramente, acho um bom comentador (e já desde os tempos da AE), mas como Heel , torna-se um gajo irritante pa crl. Eu adoro Heels, mas fds, o Cole enerva, de fazer o papel de Heel tão mal. Face ficava muito melhor.

Editado 24 Maio 2012 por TP

[El Colosso]

Claro que nao ha cadeiradas nem sangue porque a segurança dos wrestlers cada vez mais importa mais. E ter cadeiradas na cabeça depois do que aconteceu ao Nowinski e ao Benoit seria publicidade terrivel

[TP]

Claro que nao ha cadeiradas nem sangue porque a segurança dos wrestlers cada vez mais importa mais. E ter cadeiradas na cabeça depois do que aconteceu ao Nowinski e ao Benoit seria publicidade terrivel

Para mim, wrestling tem que ter sangue e cadeiradas (violência, portanto). A partir daí, se não tiver, já é mais "pseudo"-wrestling que outra treta qualquer. E essa cena que aconteceu com o Benoit é One in a Million.

Editado 24 Maio 2012 por TP

[El Colosso]

Durante anos e anos o wrestling teve pouquíssimo sangue e quase nenhuma cadeirada na cabeça. It's still wrestling.

 

Sera? Esta mais que provado que pancadas fortes na cabeça e algo de mau para o cerebro. Por isso e que se fala tanto disso nos States por causa da NFL. E o caso do Nowinski e o que pode acontecer a muitos se continuarem a levar com cadeiradas na cabeça.

 

O wrestling tem que se adaptar com o que acontece na sociedade. Entre 98-02, o que era popular nos States? Jerry Springer, Jackass, programas desse estilo. A WWE adaptou-se. Agora o que importa e a segurança dos atletas, e o que a WWE fez foi adaptar-se, tal como fez durante a sua historia. Se tu so vires wrestling com sangue e violencia, mas vale começares a ver CZW, que nao vais voltar a ver isso com frequencia na WWE. E ainda bem.

 

E BTW, se nao fosse o Jericho a dizer isso das cadeiradas e se ter falado na coisa do sangue, sera que o pessoal notava? :lol:

[Aimar10]

Para mim, wrestling tem que ter sangue e cadeiradas

Isso é tão overrated. :lol:

[TP]

Durante anos e anos o wrestling teve pouquíssimo sangue e quase nenhuma cadeirada na cabeça. It's still wrestling.

 

Sera? Esta mais que provado que pancadas fortes na cabeça e algo de mau para o cerebro. Por isso e que se fala tanto disso nos States por causa da NFL. E o caso do Nowinski e o que pode acontecer a muitos se continuarem a levar com cadeiradas na cabeça.

 

O wrestling tem que se adaptar com o que acontece na sociedade. Entre 98-02, o que era popular nos States? Jerry Springer, Jackass, programas desse estilo. A WWE adaptou-se. Agora o que importa e a segurança dos atletas, e o que a WWE fez foi adaptar-se, tal como fez durante a sua historia. Se tu so vires wrestling com sangue e violencia, mas vale começares a ver CZW, que nao vais voltar a ver isso com frequencia na WWE. E ainda bem.

 

E BTW, se nao fosse o Jericho a dizer isso das cadeiradas e se ter falado na coisa do sangue, sera que o pessoal notava? :lol:

Desde que vejo wrestling, sempre o vi com cadeiradas e sangue. SEMPRE. Comecei a ver praí em 2003/2004. Agora saquei os episódios de 97, 98 e 99 de WWF RAW is WAR (+ PPV's). Por isso, para mim, wrestling tem que ter isso. Não é obrigatório ter SEMPRE, claro. Mas NUNCA ter, acho ridículo. Se nos anos 80 não havia sangue, não sei, porque não sou grande conhecedor dessa época, e por isso não sou fã dela também.

 

Isso é que é o problema. Adaptar-se. Se a sociedade for uma m*rda,o wrestling vai-se adaptar a m*rda? Bem, realmente tens razão... Neste momento, tá uma m*rda lol

Se vi 5 minutos de CZW foi muito. E chegou-me... Porquê? Porque isso para mim ultrapassa TODOS os limites, e já nem é violência. É uma espécie de suícidio + masoquismo.

 

E não, eu como disse, nem acompanho o wrestling de hoje em dia. Vejo às vezes os PPV's, quando tenho tempo e estou disposto a isso, porque faço apostas dos resultados. RAW's, não acompanho. A última cena da RAW que vi, foi o Lesnar a voltar. E só o vi por ser um momento bastante aguardado pelos fãs e pelo público. Nunca mais vi uma RAW, só mesmo esse segmento. Por isso, faço lá ideia do que o Jericho disse ou não disse :lol: sei que quando vejo, isso é bastante notório. Só um cego é que não repara nisso.

 

Isso é tão overrated. :lol:

mas mete isso no contexto, sff.

Editado 25 Maio 2012 por TP

[El Colosso]

Desde que vejo wrestling, sempre o vi com cadeiradas e sangue. SEMPRE. Comecei a ver praí em 2003/2004. Agora saquei os episódios de 97, 98 e 99 de WWF RAW is WAR (+ PPV's). Por isso, para mim, wrestling tem que ter isso. Não é obrigatório ter SEMPRE, claro. Mas NUNCA ter, acho ridículo. Se nos anos 80 não havia sangue, não sei, porque não sou grande conhecedor dessa época, e por isso não sou fã dela também.

 

Isso é que é o problema. Adaptar-se. Se a sociedade for uma m*rda,o wrestling vai-se adaptar a m*rda? Bem, realmente tens razão... Neste momento, tá uma m*rda lol

Se vi 5 minutos de CZW foi muito. E chegou-me... Porquê? Porque isso para mim ultrapassa TODOS os limites, e já nem é violência. É uma espécie de suícidio + masoquismo.

 

E não, eu como disse, nem acompanho o wrestling de hoje em dia. Vejo às vezes os PPV's, quando tenho tempo e estou disposto a isso, porque faço apostas dos resultados. RAW's, não acompanho. A última cena da RAW que vi, foi o Lesnar a voltar. E só o vi por ser um momento bastante aguardado pelos fãs e pelo público. Nunca mais vi uma RAW, só mesmo esse segmento. Por isso, faço lá ideia do que o Jericho disse ou não disse :lol: sei que quando vejo, isso é bastante notório. Só um cego é que não repara nisso.

 

 

mas mete isso no contexto, sff.

Esse período de tempo ´e 1/10 da historia do wrestling.

 

E claro que tem de se adaptar. Adaptou-se para a Attitude Era e resultou num produto diferente. TODOS os desportos tem que se adaptar, ´e a vida

 

O Jericho foi quem avisou que as cadeiradas estavam banidas. Isto em 2009 prai, e estavam banidas desde 2007, +/-. Ninguem tinha reparado :lol:

 

E esta uma m*rda porque tu não vês, olha que crl :lol:

 

E por falar em sangue, nao viste o Cena a sangrar como um porco contra o Lesnar, ou viste? :lol:

 

Uma coisa que o pessoal tem que perceber: ter menos sangue, cadeiradas, combates hardcore, etc, ´e bom para o produto. Os gajos duram mais tempo, existem menos lesões, os gajos estabelecidos mantém-se estabelecidos. Tudo coisas boas