Cinema | Discussão Geral

[bmfpcdm]

Aquando da trilogia original o Lucas tinha planos para ir até ao 9, mas acabou por se cansar. Depois teve o divórcio e dedicou-se a ser um pai presente. No início das prequelas julgo que até haveria a esperança inicial de depois continuar até ao 9, mas quando acabou o último já se notava que era um homem cansado e derrotado, e ele próprio admitiu que não tinha planos para continuar. Depois da Disney adquirir a Lucasfilm ele ofereceu-se a ajudar a desenvolver a história com as ideias que ele já tinha trabalhado, mas a Disney prontamente rejeitou.

[Ghelthon]

Obrigado pela info, não sabia.

[kareca]

Gostei bastante do Detroit.

[Ghelthon]

Sobre o Snoke,

 

 

pus-me aqui a pensar que a morte (ou lá o que foi aquilo) dele não significa, obrigatoriamente, o seu desaparecimento da história. Se os Jedi continuam vivos em espírito (?) quando morrem, ele pode muito bem continuar também, porque o seu domínio da Força está ao nível dos Jedi. Parece-me plausível.

 

[sepa]

The Last Jedi

 

Review que encontrei no reddit e que achei muito interessante. Em determinados aspetos realça as componentes que mais gostei no filme e o porquê das mesmas.

 

 

 

 

"I have seen every Star Wars since ESB in theaters. I am a life long fan, member or the 501st, my entire home office is wall-to-wall Star Wars and so are pretty all of the t-shirts I own. So I guess you could say I am a huge fan. The OT shaped my childhood. I never lost that love, even through the prequels which, though often disappointing, were still fun to watch and gave us many memorable moments. I read a good portion of the EU novels, comics and played every video game. When Force Awakens was announced, I was elated. Finally, we get to see the end of this story. I could not contain my excitement.

 

Now that that’s out of the way, I need to address some things that may help put this film into perspective for some of those on the fence, and hopefully, sway some back from the abyss. I am going to start off with:

 

Luke: I am seeing a lot of disappointment over how TLJ “ruined” their favorite character, hell, some even say the entire franchise. But something no one (that I have seen) is talking about is that Luke was never a real Jedi. Certainly not a master. He trained with Yoda for approx. 6 months and then left on his own to help his friends. He never returned to finish his training. Instead he “trained himself”. The title of master was never bestowed upon him. If you go back to the OT, Luke was just a cocky, naïve young man looking for purpose. He learned he had a power he didn’t understand and tried too quickly to “master” it. He was ambitious, but he was a fool. That is why Vader bested him the first time.

 

Then, in RotJ, he comes back with a little more control of the Force, but is still sloppy, a beginner. He never really controls the force in the way that we learn of in later movies. He had really basic abilities. He finally faces down Vader again and narrowly bests him, only to have Palpatine step in. Vader defeats Palpatine, not Luke. Vader’s ultimate redemption was not because of Luke’s actions, but rather the conflict inside of Vader himself.

 

So, Luke was never really a hero outside of the fact that he used his connection to the Force to destroy the Death Star. He was a fledgling student without a real idea of what he was. Only over time did he become a legend. Not because he was a Jedi, because he was THE Jedi. He was the only known Jedi in the galaxy, and over the years his legend grew.

 

The prequels introduced crazy Force abilities and acrobatic lightsaber duels that were right for the time; a time when Jedi where common and their order helped protect the galaxy. Before we saw the prequels, it was easy to see Luke as a Jedi master, but post-prequels, it is very easy to see he was not.

 

We now see (in this canon) that Luke tried to rebuild, train new Jedi. But he failed himself, his students and their parents. He slipped, made a judgment call and it cost him. Why? Because, he was never really in control. We saw this in the OT that he dipped into the dark, but only slightly. He, himself never found balance, and Ben tipped him over the edge. In some ways, Luke’s own hubris was his downfall.

 

I see Luke in this movie as broken; a man who could never live up to the legend. Human. I see a man with faults, not an unshakable hero. I found his ultimately giving himself to the Force as a way to not only balance it, but also bring peace to himself. TLJ didn’t ruin Luke, it redeemed him.

 

I personally applaud this direction for his character. He was not a throwaway. We see a broken man learn about his true place in the universe, own up to his mistakes and redeem himself the only way he knew how.

 

Overall Theme: Not the plot, the theme. The plot of this movie is secondary to the actual story that develops. So many people are angry that this did not knock down everything, or even most of what TFA set up. It didn’t have to. This movie is not about resolutions, it is about failure. Poe tries to be a hero, and while succeeding on a small scale, ultimately fails. He learns that being a hero isn’t so black and white.

 

The resistance is forced to run, low on resources, without a plan. They find that they are being tracked through hyperspace, and they understand there is no escape. They are, for the first time, hopeless to an extent.

 

Finn and Rose leave on a mission to shut down the tracking device, only to fail at securing their codebreaker. When they find a substitute, they eventually fail at shutting the tracker down and sold out and captured. While this part has purpose, I could’ve done without it.

 

Rey fails to bring Luke back. So, she decides to go it alone to try to turn Kylo. She also fails at that. She learns almost nothing from Luke and, much like him, is forced to go it alone. While she has raw power, she will need to learn how to wield it herself.

 

Kylo fails to turn Rey, but, he also fails to kill his mother, burying the past. Instead, another TIE takes out the bridge, robbing him of his opportunity. I think we will see that come back to haunt him in the future.

 

The resistance fails to get away intact. They are now only a remnant of what they once were. They are running scared, barely making it off Crait, their future uncertain.

 

And Luke spends the entire movie as a failure, the only one to redeem himself at the end, but only with the help of Yoda reminding him of his past mistakes.

 

Summary: This movie is not a fairy tale. Like Rogue One, it is showing us that not everything ends well. The galaxy is a brutal place. The Millennium Falcon is not going to swoop in at the last second and save the day. Luke is not going to take up his lightsaber and face the entire First Order, the plan will not come together and people will die. We have been taught by the previous films that there is always a hero, always a day-saving moment, here we see that is not always the case. This movie is not a fairy tale, it is an attempt at being real.

 

While I do have problems with it, I loved it as a whole after really letting it sink in. I think Leia should’ve died in the attack. It would’ve sealed the failure theme 100%. So I disagree with Super Leia, a very poor choice in my opinion. The Finn/Rose arc did nothing for me either, except showing their ultimate failure as well. And a few other moments that didn’t sit well, but take a backseat to everything else.

 

It is easy, given the films that came before, to go in with expectations of this being another Star Wars movie with all of the tropes intact. But Johnson acknowledged them, and broke them on purpose. There is a deeper meaning here than in the other films, a human element that is often missed, the lesson that heroes have faults and there is no knight in shining armor. It is a smack in the face from reality. That I find bold and unexpected.

 

Do I want to know who Snoke is, absolutely. Do I think Rey’s parents were nobodies, no. Are there a million other internet theories I would’ve loved to see come true, of course. But they didn’t, and I don’t fault Johnson, Disney or Star Wars for that. I am actually quite pleased with the result.

 

That is my interpretation of it, take it or leave it. If you hated it, you hated it. I am not going to tell you that you are wrong. I wish you didn’t, but that is not my call. I think that in the coming days and weeks more and more people are going to come around to it. It is divisive, it is different, but different doesn’t always mean bad. In any case, I hope you remain a Star Wars fan and continue to support it and the community at large.

 

I did not read every EU novel, so there may be a couple facts that are incorrect. If so I welcome the correction. This is more my interpretation of the saga as a die hard fan from the beginning."

 

 

 

[Keef]

 

Realizado pelo Peter Jackson.

 

Alguém já leu o(s) livro(s)?

[rfss94]

The Last Jedi

 

Review que encontrei no reddit e que achei muito interessante. Em determinados aspetos realça as componentes que mais gostei no filme e o porquê das mesmas.

 

 

 

 

"I have seen every Star Wars since ESB in theaters. I am a life long fan, member or the 501st, my entire home office is wall-to-wall Star Wars and so are pretty all of the t-shirts I own. So I guess you could say I am a huge fan. The OT shaped my childhood. I never lost that love, even through the prequels which, though often disappointing, were still fun to watch and gave us many memorable moments. I read a good portion of the EU novels, comics and played every video game. When Force Awakens was announced, I was elated. Finally, we get to see the end of this story. I could not contain my excitement.

 

Now that that’s out of the way, I need to address some things that may help put this film into perspective for some of those on the fence, and hopefully, sway some back from the abyss. I am going to start off with:

 

Luke: I am seeing a lot of disappointment over how TLJ “ruined” their favorite character, hell, some even say the entire franchise. But something no one (that I have seen) is talking about is that Luke was never a real Jedi. Certainly not a master. He trained with Yoda for approx. 6 months and then left on his own to help his friends. He never returned to finish his training. Instead he “trained himself”. The title of master was never bestowed upon him. If you go back to the OT, Luke was just a cocky, naïve young man looking for purpose. He learned he had a power he didn’t understand and tried too quickly to “master” it. He was ambitious, but he was a fool. That is why Vader bested him the first time.

 

Then, in RotJ, he comes back with a little more control of the Force, but is still sloppy, a beginner. He never really controls the force in the way that we learn of in later movies. He had really basic abilities. He finally faces down Vader again and narrowly bests him, only to have Palpatine step in. Vader defeats Palpatine, not Luke. Vader’s ultimate redemption was not because of Luke’s actions, but rather the conflict inside of Vader himself.

 

So, Luke was never really a hero outside of the fact that he used his connection to the Force to destroy the Death Star. He was a fledgling student without a real idea of what he was. Only over time did he become a legend. Not because he was a Jedi, because he was THE Jedi. He was the only known Jedi in the galaxy, and over the years his legend grew.

 

The prequels introduced crazy Force abilities and acrobatic lightsaber duels that were right for the time; a time when Jedi where common and their order helped protect the galaxy. Before we saw the prequels, it was easy to see Luke as a Jedi master, but post-prequels, it is very easy to see he was not.

 

We now see (in this canon) that Luke tried to rebuild, train new Jedi. But he failed himself, his students and their parents. He slipped, made a judgment call and it cost him. Why? Because, he was never really in control. We saw this in the OT that he dipped into the dark, but only slightly. He, himself never found balance, and Ben tipped him over the edge. In some ways, Luke’s own hubris was his downfall.

 

I see Luke in this movie as broken; a man who could never live up to the legend. Human. I see a man with faults, not an unshakable hero. I found his ultimately giving himself to the Force as a way to not only balance it, but also bring peace to himself. TLJ didn’t ruin Luke, it redeemed him.

 

I personally applaud this direction for his character. He was not a throwaway. We see a broken man learn about his true place in the universe, own up to his mistakes and redeem himself the only way he knew how.

 

Overall Theme: Not the plot, the theme. The plot of this movie is secondary to the actual story that develops. So many people are angry that this did not knock down everything, or even most of what TFA set up. It didn’t have to. This movie is not about resolutions, it is about failure. Poe tries to be a hero, and while succeeding on a small scale, ultimately fails. He learns that being a hero isn’t so black and white.

 

The resistance is forced to run, low on resources, without a plan. They find that they are being tracked through hyperspace, and they understand there is no escape. They are, for the first time, hopeless to an extent.

 

Finn and Rose leave on a mission to shut down the tracking device, only to fail at securing their codebreaker. When they find a substitute, they eventually fail at shutting the tracker down and sold out and captured. While this part has purpose, I could’ve done without it.

 

Rey fails to bring Luke back. So, she decides to go it alone to try to turn Kylo. She also fails at that. She learns almost nothing from Luke and, much like him, is forced to go it alone. While she has raw power, she will need to learn how to wield it herself.

 

Kylo fails to turn Rey, but, he also fails to kill his mother, burying the past. Instead, another TIE takes out the bridge, robbing him of his opportunity. I think we will see that come back to haunt him in the future.

 

The resistance fails to get away intact. They are now only a remnant of what they once were. They are running scared, barely making it off Crait, their future uncertain.

 

And Luke spends the entire movie as a failure, the only one to redeem himself at the end, but only with the help of Yoda reminding him of his past mistakes.

 

Summary: This movie is not a fairy tale. Like Rogue One, it is showing us that not everything ends well. The galaxy is a brutal place. The Millennium Falcon is not going to swoop in at the last second and save the day. Luke is not going to take up his lightsaber and face the entire First Order, the plan will not come together and people will die. We have been taught by the previous films that there is always a hero, always a day-saving moment, here we see that is not always the case. This movie is not a fairy tale, it is an attempt at being real.

 

While I do have problems with it, I loved it as a whole after really letting it sink in. I think Leia should’ve died in the attack. It would’ve sealed the failure theme 100%. So I disagree with Super Leia, a very poor choice in my opinion. The Finn/Rose arc did nothing for me either, except showing their ultimate failure as well. And a few other moments that didn’t sit well, but take a backseat to everything else.

 

It is easy, given the films that came before, to go in with expectations of this being another Star Wars movie with all of the tropes intact. But Johnson acknowledged them, and broke them on purpose. There is a deeper meaning here than in the other films, a human element that is often missed, the lesson that heroes have faults and there is no knight in shining armor. It is a smack in the face from reality. That I find bold and unexpected.

 

Do I want to know who Snoke is, absolutely. Do I think Rey’s parents were nobodies, no. Are there a million other internet theories I would’ve loved to see come true, of course. But they didn’t, and I don’t fault Johnson, Disney or Star Wars for that. I am actually quite pleased with the result.

 

That is my interpretation of it, take it or leave it. If you hated it, you hated it. I am not going to tell you that you are wrong. I wish you didn’t, but that is not my call. I think that in the coming days and weeks more and more people are going to come around to it. It is divisive, it is different, but different doesn’t always mean bad. In any case, I hope you remain a Star Wars fan and continue to support it and the community at large.

 

I did not read every EU novel, so there may be a couple facts that are incorrect. If so I welcome the correction. This is more my interpretation of the saga as a die hard fan from the beginning."

 

 

 

 

 

Acho que não diria melhor. É exactamente o meu sentimento em relação ao filme.

[El Colosso]

https://www.change.org/p/the-walt-disney-company-have-disney-strike-star-wars-episode-viii-from-the-official-canon

 

They are mad!

[Ghelthon]

Lá está a tal polaridade de opiniões... :mrgreen:

[sepa]

Ahah, não imaginei que chegasse a tantto :lol: Os dias passam e cada vez gosto mais do filme :mrgreen:

[Visitante]

Fui ontem ao cinema ver o Star Wars VIII. Gostei muito. Sou fã da saga e achei que o filme está completamente à altura da história. Diria que gostei mais deste do que do VII.

[Hammerfall]

venho aqui dizer que o man of steel bate todos os filmes feitos pela marvel. :heart:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

podem-me comer vivo :mrgreen:

[bmfpcdm]

[Bashir]

[Scurvy]

Melhores filmes de ação com bom ritmo para ver com a família este natal pessoal?

[Peplin]

O Die Hard é sempre aquela opção clássica.

[Keef]

venho aqui dizer que o man of steel bate todos os filmes feitos pela marvel. :heart:

 

podem-me comer vivo :mrgreen:

[youtubehd]Pymm6cmE9uQ

Taylor Sheridan não desilude. Parece mais um filmaço.

Melhores filmes de ação com bom ritmo para ver com a família este natal pessoal?

Os Missão Impossível mais recentes são uma boa escolha. Também tens o The Man From U.N.C.L.E.

Editado 20 Dezembro 2017 por Keef

[Rōnin]

Sentimentos mistos em relação ao TLJ.

 

Não é um mau filme, apesar de entender a raiva de quem se sinta defraudado com aquilo que viu. Tem vários problemas: é demasiado longo com plots que não dão em nada, a execução falhou em momentos críticos que poderiam o ter definido como memorável e aquilo que foi criado no filme anterior foi deitado ao lixo. Tudo o resto que foi mencionado são pequenas coisas que não matam e apenas moem.

 

De certa forma é o oposto do TFA. Se o primeiro é um filme sólido mas que sofre de uma narrativa previsível e pouco original, já este apostou numa premissa arriscada, mas falhou redondamente na execução. Mas aprecio a tentativa de criar algo novo e talvez por aí o prefira ao TFA.

 

A cena final em que estão todos na nave exemplifica na perfeição o problema desta trilogia, pois eu deveria ter sentido algo mas não senti. Não estou nem de perto nem de longe emocionalmente investido com estas personagens, nem faço a mínima ideia do que está em jogo no universo desta saga. É tudo muito superficial e pouco desenvolvido e assim o meu interesse em ver o próximo filme é quase nulo.

 

Ainda há esperança que possam aproveitar o Kylo Ren e de certa forma a Rey.

[Scurvy]

O Die Hard é sempre aquela opção clássica.

 

Já vimos todos os Die Hard, e não sou gajo de rever filmes, só um ou outro recentes que tenha visto no cinema, mas obrigado na mesma.

 

 

 

Os Missão Impossível mais recentes são uma boa escolha. Também tens o The Man From U.N.C.L.E.

Missão Impossível também estão fora de questão. O The Man From U.N.C.L.E. parece-me interessante, vou ter em conta.

 

Mais alguns? Preciso de mais uns 2 ou 3, quero ver mais pessoal a participar :mrgreen:

 

Tou a pensar também no Dunkirk, tem um bom ritmo ou um ritmo lento? O que me chateia é isto, tenho uma família que não gosta nem dos melhores filmes por ter um ritmo lento, por exemplo, Godfather.

 

 

P.s.: Gostam também de Cowboys, mas os mais conhecidos já vimos(Trilogia Dólares)

[Keef]

Se a tua família não gosta de filme com ritmo lento, não vejas o Dunkirk.

 

Vou dar mais alguns:

 

Os Sherlocks do Downey Jr, Logan Lucky, The Nice Guys, The Equalizer, Edge Of Tomorrow, Pacific Rim, Dredd, Men In Black, American Made, American Assassin, Kiss Kiss Bang Bang, Baby Driver, Magnificent Seven. Alguns deles não achei nada de especial, mas como são recentes podem despertar mais o vosso interesse.

Editado 20 Dezembro 2017 por Keef

[kareca]

Como se define o ritmo de Dunkirk?

[Simeone]

Já vimos todos os Die Hard, e não sou gajo de rever filmes, só um ou outro recentes que tenha visto no cinema, mas obrigado na mesma.

 

 

Missão Impossível também estão fora de questão. O The Man From U.N.C.L.E. parece-me interessante, vou ter em conta.

 

Mais alguns? Preciso de mais uns 2 ou 3, quero ver mais pessoal a participar :mrgreen:

 

Tou a pensar também no Dunkirk, tem um bom ritmo ou um ritmo lento? O que me chateia é isto, tenho uma família que não gosta nem dos melhores filmes por ter um ritmo lento, por exemplo, Godfather.

 

 

P.s.: Gostam também de Cowboys, mas os mais conhecidos já vimos(Trilogia Dólares)

Vê o Magnificent Seven. Não é nada de especial mas parece-me que encaixa. É um western com poucas partes mortas. Falo do remake, de 2016, e não do original.

[bmfpcdm]

Já vimos todos os Die Hard, e não sou gajo de rever filmes, só um ou outro recentes que tenha visto no cinema, mas obrigado na mesma.

 

 

Missão Impossível também estão fora de questão. O The Man From U.N.C.L.E. parece-me interessante, vou ter em conta.

 

Mais alguns? Preciso de mais uns 2 ou 3, quero ver mais pessoal a participar :mrgreen:

 

Tou a pensar também no Dunkirk, tem um bom ritmo ou um ritmo lento? O que me chateia é isto, tenho uma família que não gosta nem dos melhores filmes por ter um ritmo lento, por exemplo, Godfather.

 

 

P.s.: Gostam também de Cowboys, mas os mais conhecidos já vimos(Trilogia Dólares)

"The Wild Bunch" e "The Driver".

[Spikey]

Fui ver hoje o Star Wars VIII. Muito boa experiência e gostei da maioria do filme. Entendo várias críticas ao filme, mas acho que o pessoal pelas internets anda muito exagerado em relação a certos detalhes. Bem, o que se pode esperar de uma fanbase como SW?

 

 

Coisas boas:

 

- Os visuais estão absurdos. Gostei imenso da atmosfera e dos cenários criados neste filme.

- A forma como os Jedi são algo desacreditados durante o filme, apontando-lhes corretamente a hipocrisia e a hubris associada à mesma, como o Luke disse.

- Também gostei da forma como a Força foi abordada no filme.

- Menos previsível, tirando uma cena ou outra. Dessa forma não surpreende a controvérsia, mas eu até acho que este tipo de controvérsia até é positivo.

- A storyline toda entre o Ben, o Luke e a Rey. Porém, acho que era mais interessante se a Rey aliasse-se mesmo com o Ben. Anyway, as suas interações foram o ponto alto do filme.

 

Coisas menos boas:

 

- A Leia deveria ter morrido neste filme. Dou de barato a cena da Leia no espaço, até porque faz algum sentido que ela saiba usar a Força, mas não houve foreshadowing disso antes. Ainda melhor seria ela sacrificar-se no ataque kamikaze à nave imperial e não a outra comandante. Como é que vão descalçar a bota da morte da Carrie Fisher, mesmo? Isso é que foi a pior parte do filme, para mim.

- Não detesto completamente a storyline do Finn e da Rose, mas não serviu de muito para o filme, tenho de admitir. Seria mais impactante se ela tivesse morrido no disparo do canhão. Ou mesmo o próprio Finn (eu pensei mesmo que ele ia morrer), mas acho que ele ainda tem potencial para o próximo filme.

- A personagem do Benício del Toro podia ser melhor explorada, mas deu para entender o propósito.

- Se o Snoke morreu já, o que pessoalmente duvido um pouco, também acho que podia ser muito melhor explorado, assim como toda a First Order. Não sabemos quem ele é mesmo e como é que ele formou a First Order.

- É pena que, provavelmente, seja o fim da participação do Luke na série. Adorei todos os momentos em que ele apareceu, especialmente o confronto contra o Ben (aquele move do Matrix, fds). Ele ir-se embora como force ghost é um pouco desapontante, mesmo assim. Houve certos momentos, como a "morte" do Luke, que podiam ser mais impactantes.

 

 

[Scurvy]

Obrigado a todos pela ajuda.

 

Bem, em primeiro lugar, o The Magnificent Seven foi uma escolha que encaixou perfeitamente no último Natal :mrgreen:

 

Pelo que tive a analisar a primeira escolha vai para Logan Lucky, esqueci-me de dizer que eles adoram o misto ação/comédia e parece-me que se encaixa perfeitamente. A 2ª, como disse, vai ter que ir para um filme de cowboys, por isso o The Wild Bunch não tem adversário. Eles não gostam dos de ficção científica por isso muito são eliminados.

 

Restam The Man From U.N.C.L.E. ; American Made ; American Assassin ; Kiss Kiss Bang Bang ; The Equalizer; The Driver

 

(Os que não pus já vimos)

 

Desses estou mais tentado para o The Man From U.N.C.L.E. e American Made, a ver se conseguimos ver os 4.